Joshua Gillow
Founder & Owner | MasterPLAN Outdoor Living
Duane Draughon
Co-Founder/ Designer | VizX Design Studios
If you want to increase your close rate and only meet with truly qualified buyers, you’ve got to qualify people on the phone. Even better, qualify both decision makers, or however many decision makers are involved in a landscaping sale. Then present to them so that everyone involved feels heard and you can overcome any objections that may come up. In today’s episode we’re going to share with you a roleplay with another landscape sales professional, but today’s interview went on a whole different tangent when I asked a question about challenges.
And I’m excited to share with you that in this episode I have my first black guest, Duane, on the show. I wasn’t planning to bring up race, but when I asked about challenges, Duane brought up what it was like to start his landscaping company as a black professional. We talked about race and it made me uncomfortable and I told him that. But we ended up having a really productive conversation that I think is really important for the green industry to hear and for business people in general. So check out today’s episode PLUS stay till the end to hear about the near death experience that brought me, Duane, and Josh together. Today I interviewed the partners of Yes.Express.
My name’s Jack Jostes and welcome to The Landscaper’s Guide To Modern Sales and Marketing Podcast. This show is all about helping you increase your lifestyle and lifestyle is something we talk quite a bit about today including mindset and how you can use sales and marketing and your business to really create a great life and inspire other people. With that, let’s get into today’s episode.
Interview With Duane and Josh
Jack Jostes:
All right, everyone. All right, everyone. Welcome to The Landscaper's Guide to Modern Sales and Marketing. Today, I'm really excited to interview Joshua and Duane. They are partners of YES Express. I actually saw these guys... We're in a Facebook group for landscaping business owners that I was a guest on Scott's show, Million Dollar Landscaper, and I saw these guys dancing. They had a video where they were dancing, they were celebrating something, it looked hilarious.
Jack Jostes:
And I looked into it, and they have a really cool program called YES Express, which is all about getting yes from the right people. They have an online sales training program that also includes access to a live coaching program. Tell me a little bit about yourselves, and what is YES Express?
Josh:
Yeah. YES Express was born out of the need that we saw. Actually, let me back that up a little bit. I grew up in a nursery, in landscaping, and outdoor living since I was a child. Over the last 24 years of growing through the industry, I've found that there's not a whole lot of support for people wanting to grow their business. I've gone out of the industry many times, and read tons of books, and went to tons of seminars, and events, and classes, and all that stuff over the last 20 some years, and I feel like there's not a whole lot being done within our industry.
Josh:
So, I met Duane, and he's passionate like I am for serving and creating awesome outdoor living spaces. We started talking, and we're like, it'd be really cool if we could bring education to our industry, that's very industry-specific, so that our brothers and sisters out here can get a sense of what's possible, and not have to go out to another industry, and extrapolate what that means, and trying to stuff it into our world, and all of that, because it's a lot of nuances within our industry, with seasonalities, and things like that.
Josh:
For me, that's where it really was. It was kind of that culmination, and then being able to partner up with Duane here has been such a beautiful thing, because we have a lot of similarities, and we really enjoy working together. So Duane, tell us about your side.
Duane Draughon:
My side, I go all the way back from pretty much childhood, I've been in the industry. As we were growing up, my mom told my dad to buy some lawn mowers to keep us out of trouble. So, he had us cutting grass. We were taking out trash for older ladies. I was doing, taking out the trash, for like $2.00. Remember when $2.00 bills were out?
Jack Jostes:
Yes.
Duane Draughon:
I was getting $2.00 bills. I still have one in my wallet, just to remind me of my past. I'm not joking. I keep a $2.00 bill with me at all times, but it started from the beginning.
Duane Draughon:
Then, we did grass cutting. We went from grass cutting, left, the Marine Corps. You get all that, all that... That could take hours explaining that, but I'll do it real fast. Architectural engineering school. Then, my wife and I created a brick paver patio business, and accidentally did a little bit over $6 billion dollars in sales.
Duane Draughon:
And when I say accidentally, I never thought about myself as being a contractor. I mean, it just kept getting bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and bigger. Then one day, I woke up, and said, "I just, I don't want to be the contractor anymore. I want to be more creative, which is what I went to school for, design."
Duane Draughon:
So, we switched over about eight years ago, and created the design company that we have, and it's sort of like Josh, Joshua, and it's how we met. We were talking about business, and we realized that we're both running the same type of business, and Josh had a lot of tips to bring my way to show me how to get mine rolling very well.
Duane Draughon:
And then, down to the schooling, let's get there. Josh created YES Express. That matter of fact, I think when Josh and I started talking about it, YES Express was not created, but he said... He taught me how to go through the sales training program. And then, he said, "Let's create YES Express."
Duane Draughon:
And, then on the other side is that if you had sales, you're going to need some design training. So, what we did was we came together to create a design platform. There's two sides to YES Express. You have your sales side, and then the other side is the design side. So, that's where we come in as the partnership, and it's working very well.
Josh:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
That's amazing, and definitely the $2.00 bill story resonates with me. I actually have a $2.00 bill. I'm not sure where it came from, but I have it in a little box from when I was a kid. And, for sure, $2 bills were magical.
Duane Draughon:
Yeah.
Duane On Being A Black Man In The Landscaping Industry
Jack Jostes:
And, this is the story of many people listening, where they... I just interviewed somebody who runs a $9 million dollar a year commercial landscape company. And, he just was mowing lawns, and said yes to an HOA, and then bought a truck, and a trailer, and hired somebody, and kind of just grew from there.
Jack Jostes:
I love that. A lot of entrepreneurs are that way. What were some of the challenges that you faced on your path, Duane, to selling $6 million dollars of paver service, that you wish you had known what you know now? What were some of the problems that you had, and what are some of the resources that you're trying to offer people who are in that kind of this growth mode?
Duane Draughon:
If this is going to scare you, let it, because I'm going to come straight forward with it. One of the biggest challenges that I had was actually being... I don't like to use the word African-American, but being a black man in the industry, I had a lot of uphill battles going to people's houses. They would see me, wouldn't let me in the door. They would call the office, and say, "Hey, whoever showed up scared us." They wouldn't let me in their house.
Duane Draughon:
So, there was a lot of uphill battles. What my wife and I did, instead of going home crying about it, we said, "We're going to win. We're going to beat this game." So, we created more technology. 15 years ago, I was walking in houses with laptops, and I had my photo gallery in there. We learned... We started going through the dictionary, and watching people talk, to make sure the speech was very well done, and we can tell what was going on.
Duane Draughon:
Then, we started hiring the face. We put in the face that made it more comfortable, so let's... We put in the white faces, and the way we hired them was, we had our insurance guy interview them, because they didn't even want to work for us, because they saw who we were, so we built that there.
Duane Draughon:
We were... Now, to bring it back till today, what I wish I would have known, I wish I would've put more effort, and had more... less fear of design, and go full-in on the way we design now. And on the YES Express side, I wish we spent way more time doing the interviewing process, and just the onboarding process of bringing each client through the door, instead of just running over 200 and something appointments a year, to pull it off.
Duane Draughon:
It was just a lot to produce what we were doing. We could've slowed it down, and probably done less money, but more profit.
Jack Jostes:
If you could go back in time, you would have slowed it down, and qualified people more, before going and meeting with them at their house?
Duane Draughon:
Big time. Oh, my God, yeah. Big time. Big time. Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah, tell me more. I haven't had anyone on this show mention the challenge of being black, and going to people's homes. It does make me a little uncomfortable, because I haven't really talked to anybody about it, but I think it's an important conversation to have.
Speaking Your Truth
Duane Draughon:
Yeah. There was an article that went out, and I had... I even got some attacks for it. So, most of the time, I used to try to hide from speaking about it, because I would get stuff like, "You're race-baiting, you're..." Things like that. Then, my wife was like, "No, this is your truth. And, you've got to speak your truth. You can't hide from what was going on."
Duane Draughon:
I used to hide behind the company. I didn't let anybody know that I owned the company. I would try to not let suppliers know. I would try not to let contractors know, just because there is a certain different business plan for us to own a business. But, what I made sure was, I never let it define me. I would come home, and have some rough night, and then a lot of times, sometimes the events wouldn't really happen, but it stuck in your mind anyway. So, you're trying to act a certain way, move a certain way, and go from there.
Duane Draughon:
But, it was just a huge challenge. Imagine how, what this world was about 10 or 15 years ago. It's open now. It's a little bit more polarized. We actually care to talk about it. We're not afraid to have the discussions anymore. 10, 15 years ago, it was a different ball game, especially in a Columbus, Ohio market.
Josh:
True.
Duane Draughon:
Where, I was in a neighborhood, and if 10 contractors showed up to your house, there was only one that was black, and that was me. And, we happened to have figured out a way to do very well.
Duane Draughon:
We used to have the cops follow us around. I had the police come into my office with guns drawn, saying that somebody robbed the place. It was just constant harassment day-in, day-out, which is the reason why we really even moved to Chicago, for a better life.
Duane Draughon:
But, like I said, I look back, especially after going through like a Tony Robbins event, you have to thank your past. And, I thank it, because I don't think I would have been the designer who I am if I didn't have that type of adversity on my back.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. That sounds really hard.
Duane Draughon:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
That sounds really hard. I don't know. I'm sorry to hear that. I don't really know what to say. You know?
Duane Draughon:
You don't have to say anything. I'm here talking to you because of it. You know what I mean? Let's hooray it, and let's push on. You know what I mean? That's how I see it.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Well, it's an incredible... How did you persevere through that? And, what was it that... How did you see that on the other side was still an opportunity to keep growing? And, now you're at the point where you've made an info course, and you're teaching other people.
Mindset Is Critical
Jack Jostes:
I think part of this relates to before the show, we were talking about mindset, and how that was something that you and Josh share, as in a mindset of abundance. There's honestly some overlap between the work that both of us do, and I used that word in my email. Hey, I think there's an abundance of opportunity to help people with sales and marketing. You must have had a mindset of abundance throughout this time?
Duane Draughon:
I had a mindset of abundance. I had a mindset of sleepless nights. I mean, I'm human. I had a lot of nights where I didn't think I was ever going to make it. I had a time when I was angry, and upset at everything, upset at the world. I don't know. It was just, there's a... I don't remember the song, but Jay-Z has a song where he talks about the way we operate business. It's a form of a sheer hustle out of desperation.
Duane Draughon:
And, what I wanted was, I wanted a better life. You know what I mean? My parents, I got lucky, because I had my mom and dad together, and they did a great job of getting us out of the bad neighborhood, and moving us into a better area. And then, I grow up, and I meet a wife, and a woman who's coming from a very well-to-do family. There is a certain quality level about her, and higher standards, that she kept, and we just maintained that level.
Duane Draughon:
So, the sheer hard work, the sleepless nights, was maintaining that level, and knowing there was other places to go. Now, there were times when I didn't think I was going to make it. And, there was actually a time where I actually, pretty much, I want to say almost gave up. I was just trying to trickle in through.
Duane Draughon:
And, it's sort of right around the time that Josh and I met. I was sort of in a phase of, I don't think I'm ever going to make this, you know what I mean? Like, it's not going to happen, I need to figure out something else, and maybe I need to do something.
Duane Draughon:
And, I talked to Josh, and realized that color was one thing, but if you're hanging on it, it's going to take you out. If you just push, and create massive action, it don't matter if you're purple, blue, orange, whatever, you can push through it, and that's the mindset that I'm at now.
Duane Draughon:
So, mindset was really the biggest thing, but you've got to get it, and you have to understand it, like riding a bicycle, like you understand balance. You can't just know it. You've got to get it.
Josh:
You can't just know it. You got to get it.
Qualifying Customers Before You Meet
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. And it is something that I think you can learn from other people and get inspired. So I'm glad that you're sharing this. And one of the things that we were talking about in the vein of qualifying people before you meet with them is getting both decision makers at the meeting.
Jack Jostes:
Because we've all sold things where you're meeting with one person and then their business partner, or their spouse, or their roommate, or somebody comes in and kills the deal. So, talk to me. How do you coach your people in your program to get both decision makers present?
Josh:
That's a great question, Jack. And it's something that I struggled with for years. When I first started out, I didn't have a business degree, I just got out of school for architecture and said, I don't want to be designing houses forever. And then growing up in the garden center, I was like, I want to start building cool stuff outside. Right? So I want to be building stuff that I don't see anywhere else. I want to be solving problems very uniquely.
Josh:
And with the architecture background that both Duane and I share that, we really want to connect to the house and all those good things. So in order to find those clients, not just the client looking for a space to throw some lawn chairs. But actually clients that are looking to create extensions of their home. I found that as soon as the phone would ring, I was so excited.
Josh:
I said, look, as soon as that phone rings, I'm going to be like, "Hey guys, sounds good. As long as it sounds like you kind of want something like I'm going to be able to give you on out there." It's that simple. Right? So the phone ring, no big deal, and very little vetting, if anything, just make sure we're in the same realm and off we go. Right?
Josh:
And what I found was I had this thought. I figured, if there's seven billion people on this planet and they called me, I'm obligated to go. I have to go. What are they going to say if I don't? So it's like, all right, well, I got to go. But then what I found is I wasn't getting the responses. I figured would this award-winning personality, when I got out there, I could get them excited about anything.
Josh:
Right? I can get them going. I just got to get in front of them. That's all I need to do. Just spend the time, drive there and get it from, because once I'm there, I'm golden. That didn't work as well as I hoped. And I spent a lot of time, Friday nights and Saturdays, and Sundays going out and meet people, because that's all they could meet. I was whatever their time was, I was good with it. And the problem was that I spent a ton of time chasing leads that weren't buying.
Josh:
And they weren't buying from the beginning, Jack. They were not ready to do anything. So I had to figure out a way to solve that problem. About that time I had two little boys coming along, and I was like I'm not going to wake up at 50 or 60 years old and say, "Where the hell did my kids' childhood go?" Because I'm chasing things that aren't real. They're all just, I don't know, ghosts, if you will.
Josh:
So we had to come up with ways to vet these clients. So what I found was one of the biggest problems we had was, if I went out, and I started looking at the overall threat. I found that if I could get both people on the phone before I went out, and also at that first meeting, I had a much higher probability of being able to close them or to help them buy, is how we like to talk. We don't like the concept of closing. Because we like to open relationships, not close doors. So we found that was the case.
Josh:
So now it's a matter of how do you get two very busy people on the phone at the same time, and at that meeting at the same time. And well, we had to figure out ways to do that. I'd read books, go to seminars, all that stuff. And I finally figured out a pretty simple way to do it.
Josh:
And I can share that with you as a little tip, you guys can hopefully learn and integrate this into your business to make your sales process just a little bit more efficient. So, if you can come from the perspective of your prospect, if you can come from your client's point of view and figure out how to communicate with them so they can clearly, easily see what's in it for them, they'll do just about anything you ask. It's very, very simple.
Sales Roleplay
Jack Jostes:
So, Josh let's role play here for a minute. Let's pretend that you're selling, I don't know, a $35,000 landscape construction project. I'm on the phone and Oh, you know what, Josh, that's great. Martha and I cannot meet together on the phone. Why don't you just email me a proposal?
Josh:
Yeah. So Jack, I would love to do that, but to be quite honest with you over the last 24 years in this industry, we have found, we get the very best results for your backyard, when we have you and Martha, as part of this process. This next 20 minutes, we're going to spend together on the phone, is going to be some of the best 20 minutes we spend together at all.
Josh:
So what I suggest is that we reschedule this meeting so she can be there because I don't want one thing that she might be thinking about this project to not be included in our overall thinking of this process. So I'm going to have my office reach back out to you. We're going to set something up that works for us all. And we're going to continue this conversation to make sure we're most efficient with our time. What do you think?
Jack Jostes:
Okay.
Josh:
That simple.
Jack Jostes:
Okay. Sure. Okay. So, okay. So I say, okay, right. So you're recommending that people have that qualifying phone call with both people before you go out, and that they're at the meeting with them.
Josh:
Yeah. So let me explain a simple hierarchy. And it'll take me a moment here. First call comes into the office, it's going to happen like that all the time you get what's called the bird dog. The one person in the relationship, that's probably most excited about the project they come in, they call you, tell you all about this stuff. Most likely they're not the one holding that checkbook. Not always, but most likely not.
Josh:
In a relationship, there's typically one that's excitable and one that's holding the checkbook, the realist, right? So that's the yin and the yang that works most relationships. But anyway, that being the case, the bird dog calls. You talk to them, make sure that they actually want what you offer. Right? Get a sense that there's some viability within the offer. So at that point we send them out a questionnaire, right?
Josh:
They go through a questionnaire. It's a pretty simple process, five to 10 minutes. And then at that questionnaire, once they send it back in, we know there's viability. We know that there's a high probability that this client is not just looking for someone with a heartbeat and a pickup truck to show up. But they're looking for us.
Josh:
There's a high probability. They're much higher probability. You give them some homework. They're invested in this project. So next we have a 20 minute phone call. This is a discovery call, we call it, where we get into things like that. And they're already prompt ahead of time to know that it's going to be in their best interest if they're both are there. But we still have some that are like, "Oh, he's too busy or she's too busy." And we will not take the call. I will reschedule that call.
Josh:
I will not go through the 20 minutes that's going to absolutely frame the rest of our relationship without both of them. I won't do it. And I piss people off and some people won't call back, but you know what? I just saved a lot of time.
Josh:
If they're not willing to respect the fact that we have processes in place to serve them, what the hell are they going to do? This is the first date, man. This is the first date. If they suck it the first day, you're going to go out and a second one with them?
Jack Jostes:
Right. Yeah. I like that. And I do think that you have to, like you did in our role-play, mention the benefit to them and establishing the experience that goes into it. And one of the things I recommend is putting that on your website. Whatever the process is, putting it out there. So people know, "Hey, the next step is a scheduled phone call or Zoom meeting with whoever's involved in your landscape, including you, your spouse and your dog, or whatever."
Jack Jostes:
And one thing that we've had success with is sending a video to people before that phone call, that goes into things like budget, brackets of budget, timeline, things that throw people off. So that way, if they're not in a budget timeline, if they don't meet the rough timeline, or rough budgets, probably not worth meeting with.
Josh:
No, I agree. And a lot of that's handled in our questionnaire process. So we see that before we even schedule a call. So we're prepared during that call to get a sense of where they are with that budget. And there's also an option within that budget part of the questionnaire where they can say, "We don't know, we'd like to talk to a designer. We're really not comfortable giving numbers yet."
Josh:
But budget is a funny subject because budget is something that, I mean, quite honest with you, I think most women, they would rather tell you how old they are and how much they weigh before they would talk about budget on a project. Right? That's just how it is. Right? This is something that people hold very personal to themselves because they think that they give somebody else that number, that you're going to spend that or more.
Jack Jostes:
Well, maybe. I think part of it is that people in general don't understand how much hiring a professional landscaper should cost. And when people don't understand, that's what makes them anxious and reluctant to share. And what I found is putting pricing on a website or putting the pricing out there, sending it to people, makes them feel like, "Oh, okay. At least I know what's happening and I can now talk about this." Because if you Google, how much does landscaping costs? A home advisor shows up, right? And it's way off. Right? So I think that's part of it.
Jack Jostes:
And part of it, I think is a cultural thing. I think like in the Midwest, Duane, I don't know if this was your experience. Growing up in Illinois, you're not supposed to talk about money. It's like impolite to talk to people about money. So no one wants to talk about money and then they never really learned how to buy, I think. That was my experience with it. And now that I've been in business a little longer, I know how to talk about money. I didn't before. And now that I've run my business for a while, it's just a utility to me. What do you guys think? Do you think people-
Duane Draughon:
I tell you Jack, what I got from being here in Illinois, and I do this all over the country. One thing I do see about Illinois is money doesn't really bother them here. It's quality and service. Can you give our clients the best quality and the best service compared to what's around, and can you really wow them? And they'll pay whatever for that. Is what I noticed that I see in Illinois, dealing with clients here compared to the rest of the country.
Duane Draughon:
I mean, I travel a lot and some of the things I do see is it is all based on price, how much this is going to cost, what is it going to be? I mean, they're worried about a plane ticket. They worry about all this other stuff. And in Illinois, they just... And they're not being snooty or snobby.
Duane Draughon:
They just want quality. Can you give us quality? Can you give me great customer service? And price doesn't really mean anything to them. Like we have budget conversations on the phone. And I bump budgets all day long here in Illinois. And there's really no pushback or no fear of any of it, whatever it costs. They find it. But it's, "Can you offer the best service for me? Can you call us back? Do you have the right systems in place that makes us feel comfortable for hiring your company to do the job?" Is what I really see here.
Josh:
Yeah. A lot of that's preemptive.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Yeah. I think the more and the... I read a really good book about pricing from Dan Kennedy. It was The No BS Guide To Pricing or something. I have the book around here somewhere. Anyways, in the book, he talked about how for only 20% of the marketplace in general, is price the number one thing, right?
Jack Jostes:
So most people, 80% of people will pay more. They don't necessarily want the most expensive, but they want to get that value that you're talking about. So what are some ways that when you get a call where people, maybe you're sensing that they are just price shopping, how can you tell those people no? Right?
Jack Jostes:
Because unless you're the cheapest, you probably don't want to try and waste your time selling to people who are just price shopping. What are some ways that you can kind of sniff that out on that first call? So you're not wasting time with people who are just looking for the cheapest thing.
Josh:
Yeah. What I've noticed is if somebody calls and says, "I want a 700 square foot patio." I mean, that's a huge problem right there, right away. Because they're calling a design firm, that's going to be, or even design build, doesn't matter, and they're already telling you what they want.
Josh:
So at that point, it's a price game. They already know what they want, unless they're open to some additional information or some additional insight. If that's what they want, 700 square foot, and a staircase, and couple of bushes, then that's what they're going to go around and get the cheapest price for.
Josh:
So if you hear that on the phone and you are the cheapest guy, then run for it. But if you aren't that person, which I hope you're not, then run the hell away from it. That's the biggest thing. Right? But budget's a funny subject because everybody wants to talk about it, but nobody wants to talk about it.
Jack Jostes:
Right.
Josh:
Most have the opportunity to spend more than they're saying, because they want to be as conservative as possible up front. That's how they're taught. That's how society teaches people. But when it comes to budget, and this is why we talk it deep into our sales process, because we have to earn the right, Jack, in order to ask that question.
Josh:
To talk about budget, we need to earn the right, through great building of rapport, through building trust. And we've got to do that on the phone. So when you have a process in place that guarantees that each and every time we won't leave to go out to meet with somebody, unless we have a budget on the phone that we both feel good about. And that's the bottom line. And we teach our students exactly how to do that. It's one of the simplest things we teach them.
Josh:
It's one of the simplest things we teach them. It's a few questions and it opens them up like a flower, but you have to. This is the key, it must be done deep in the conversation. You cannot lead with a budget. You can't say, "Hey, Jack. It's great, what you're looking to do in your backyard is fantastic, let's talk about budget. What you got in your wallet? How much are you going to spend back here? Right?
Josh:
Some guys are doing this stuff. We all know that, but it's still happening. That's just something that they know is a tipping point, so why not hit it right in the beginning, but if you're not willing to spend the time to build a report... Think of it like dating, right? You go out and you date. If you show up to that first, say you're going out to dinner, and you show up and meet that nice girl, and you sit down at the table. And the first thing you say is, "Will you marry me?" What the hell do you think she's going to say? "Get out of here." You know what I mean? The point is you have to date, you have to get to know each other. You have to do all that stuff before you can ask bigger questions. Before you've earned the right to ask the questions like that. So again, in any good sales process, that's snuggled deep into the conversation so that we can eventually have that conversation, but from a position of trust.
What Is YES Express?
Jack Jostes:
Good. So, tell us a little bit more about what Yes Express is and how you help people with these things, and also design? Tell us about the design part of it.
Josh:
Yeah. So YES Express, we originally started with a sales process. It's a process that I've worked on over the last 20 years in my practice, my outdoor living practice, and we kept fine tuning it. We'd go, again, read books and go to seminars and do all kinds of stuff, because I'm like, all right, this works now and all of a sudden until it doesn't work. And then it was like, "Crap, it doesn't work now." And I don't have a background in this, as I didn't go to school for this, you know what I mean? Anyway, and then I hired a sales coach, and I said, "Look, this is what's working. Here's what's not working." This was years ago. And I said, "I'd love to bring what you know about ancient techniques in sales and bring it to life in a more modern way that we can speak to our clients because our clients become more sophisticated every day."
Josh:
They understand how these things work. They're not stupid. So, let's have a conversation where we're all humans and create win-win scenarios so that we're both happy, create raving fans, and we can keep moving forward. So, we worked together on that and created a process. And then I implemented the process years ago and was able to blow right through the million dollar glass ceiling that always kept me kind of held down. And then now, that's not even an issue. We blow right past that every year, no problem. So it's because we know how to communicate with people. And the craziest part, Jack, at the same time, is that I have more free time now to be with my family, to start another company, YES Express, to get into real estate, to do all of these things, I have free time, because I know that I'm not spending time with people who aren't valuing me.
Josh:
All of that. We teach you in a seven week course. And the cool part is it's not just a throw somebody into a seven week online, pre-box course and say, "Have fun guys. See you on the other side." Each week we have what we call show and tells or design pods, where we bring in people from all over the country. And we talk about what they learned in the platform that week. And then some of them will bring their own design work in and say, "Guys, I'm kind of stuck on this. How would we be able to fix this? What would be some of your thoughts? How could I become a better designer?" Right? And everyone in the peer group starts helping each other out. It's such a beautiful thing. And that's really, I know I'm speaking for Duane here, but that's really what lights us up. To see others helping others and growing and creating a network of like-minded, passion driven people that really want to make a difference in the world, and really not just chase money, but impact people's lives in a positive way.
Josh:
And I know that when I am spending time with clients, they're the ones that are willing to pay me what I'm worth. I mean, and you do it on the phone. So that's where it started to create that tool, if you will. I'm a process-driven animal when it comes to that stuff. If process can solve a problem, I'm in it. I'll spend time and the money, whatever it takes to make it happen. Because I know the end game is more time and freedom of money and all of that stuff. So created this system that worked fantastically, and I said, what if we could teach others how to do it too. For me, sharing is one of the biggest things we can do. The secret to living is giving, so how can we teach others how to do this so they can have similar results and be able to have more time to work on their business and not in their business.
Josh:
To be able to take vacations, to be able to have choices, to spend time with their family. If I can do that, why can't others? I'm just an average guy. You know what I mean? If I can do this through systems and processes, why couldn't others? So I said, you know what? Let's start this. So we started it. And then, I found that a lot of the students were asking for, all right, well, what happens when... We can sell, but how can we learn how to design like you and like Duane? How can we learn how to design like that?" We said, "Well, if that's the case, we'll build a design course." We know how to build courses. That's not a problem.
Josh:
Duane and I jumped on board and he's like, "Yeah, let's do this man." So we started building the platform for all of that, step-by-step. Things like, let's talk about the project first. How do we communicate with our clients so that they feel like we're actually designers? Going into how to take accurate measurements? Going out to site? A lot of guys are still doing the old, turn their head and look down the yard and say, "That's about a foot grade difference." And then they find out later after they sold the project, that's not the case. And then they lose all their profit and more, because they guessed.
Josh:
There's such simple tools now that can be used to find this information. If you do it, step-by-step, you can do it easily. But that's not even the key here, Jack. It's the fact that you can train your staff to do it so you can get the hell away. When you're on vacation, your staff can be selling projects for you. Your staff can be out there designing things. It's not just about you anymore. You create a team. But everyone has to be rolling into the same direction.
Jack Jostes:
Absolutely. I love that about having a process is the freedom that it really can create for business and for the owner, because so often you're just bogged down doing the sales or doing the designs of doing all those things. So if you can have a process that does that, you can go on vacation or do other things. You're not just going to ghost the business entirely, it's not going to run an autopilot, but it can create some space for you to do some other things.
Josh:
And that's the important part. And then from there, we get into sketching your ideas and all that down. And we have lots of fun ways to do this so that anybody can design something outdoors. Duane and I both use 3D software for ours, because design is no more than a communication, right? An idea from your head to somebody else's. How do we show that as visual and as accurate as possible so that everyone can buy into the idea and hopefully open their checkbook even further? Which is kind of cool, but it's all about serving a client with what they need to be truly comfortable outside. That's really the main focus. But we do that in a step-by-step process. We show you how to sketch, how to lay out those things, how to transfer into a 3D software, how to present the entire plan to the client, how to do all the dimension plans afterwards, so you can give these accurate plans to your field.
Duane Draughon:
Yeah. The, the change is phenomenal. When we're going through these courses and you meet the guy who just came in for the first week and you talk to him after week three, and the changes that he's made, and just simple stuff. And it's like these aha moments that you're getting, that's really what feeds me the most. I mean, other than the class. I was talking to Josh, it's something I read in a book, and I just can't let this out of my head, is that you really can't teach anybody how to design at all. What you must do is you must allow them to create, and you must teach them how to become inspired. So you inspire them to create. You can't teach design. You have to let somebody create and inspire them to want to do something better.
Duane Draughon:
One of the different things about design is actually having the courage to push the design to another level or using different materials. I mean, one of the things about us being paver patio contractor, the first thing we want to do is put pavers everywhere. It was a solution to everything. Pavers up against the house, paver steps, paver walls, paver patio, and then everything was a paver. And now, what we are creating is the ability to teach these contractors that you don't have to be stuck with a paver. You can align yourself with a deck guy, you can align yourself with a concrete guy, and just inspire them to create different things and stuff they see on the website. And that's the beautiful thing, is what I love about what we're doing now.
The Story Behind The Dancing Video
Jack Jostes:
I love that. And giving people some inspiration and some tools and some coaching, and that's amazing that you're creating this community. Dwayne, what happened after you guys made that video of you dancing when you launched this? That was the key question.
Duane Draughon:
Joshua, are we ready to tell the story just yet? I'll see if I can drop a fast version of it.
Josh:
Roll man. Just roll it, baby. Keep it real.
Duane Draughon:
Okay, I'll drop a version of it. Okay. Here's what happened after that story. First of all, I'll explain the whole jumping around. Josh and I both went to a Tony Robbins UPW, and one of the things about Tony Robins, he states, is you can change your state at any given moment. So if you're feeling tired, if you're feeling sad, if you're feeling down, you can just change your state, get a fast movement, put some loud music on, and rip this data and you can energize yourself back, and you're happy, your heart's pumping again, and everything's back to your life. Well, the heart pumping is the funny part about this story.
Duane Draughon:
I mean, it's funny now, but at the time it probably wasn't so funny. Quick story. I am diabetic and during COVID, I wasn't checking any numbers or anything. I was just living life, eating. I have a 13 year old kid at the house and him and I were just chomping on all the garbage, bad food and everything. Well, it caused me to have this little pimple on my back that turned into this abscess. And my wife wouldn't even let me come visit Josh to even shoot the video for the training program, until Josh agreed that he would help change the patch on my back. So this, it's crazy. So I had to message Josh and said, "She's not going to let me get on this airplane, unless you change this patch to my back." He was like, "What patch?"
Duane Draughon:
He's just agreeing like, "Okay, I got you. I'll change the patch." You know what I mean? So we get to his house and we were filming and I mean, we're filming like crazy, and around three o'clock, we both got tired. We're yawning, because we started filming at eight in the morning. So three o'clock we get tired, and he puts on, I think, I'm 10 Feet Tall. So we're dancing, I mean, we're hands in the air, we're shooting the video. And what happened was the abscess turned into a boil, and the boil got worse and actually started pushing poison through my body. So after we got done sitting down, I started shaking and sweating and I looked over, and he's still filming. I'm not saying anything. And I look at Josh and said, "Man, I need a break. I need about 15-20 minute break."
Duane Draughon:
Well, that 20 minute break lasted eight hours. I went to the room and I laid down and I was pretty much dying and didn't know it. I thought it was COVID, so I was trying to stay away from everybody because I just got off the airplane and traveling. But what was happening was, it was actually called sepsis, the blood after the jumping, my heart started pumping that poison through my bloodstream. So I'm sitting there in his room and there's one moment I thought I was going to die. And I said, "I can accept this." You know what I mean? I can accept death. I live a great life. I travel. I'm a pilot. I've been spending more time with my kids and my family. So I was at a moment where I'm like, "I'm going to accept this death."
Duane Draughon:
And then something hit me and said, "Hell no, you got a lot more to live." And really, I came back for others. I felt like I was coming back for others, not myself. And it's like, I have to inspire and teach and stuff like that. So we were at the perfect place and the perfect time doing the perfect thing on something like that to happen, this near death experience. And I'm in Josh's basement, out of town, not knowing what's going on. Even during the time, I had no clue what was going on. I just know that I wasn't feeling well. And after it was over, changed my flight, went home, went to the hospital and we found out what everything was, and I'm back. But it was just crazy that you saw that and like, "Okay, these guys are doing something great." And after that is when I was dying.
Jack Jostes:
Oh man, that is wild. That is so wild. I thought it was going to be something small. Like, oh, you lost a video you thought you recorded or something; something like that. It's a near death experience. Well, Duane, one of our core values at Ramblin Jackson is raise the stakes, and raise the stakes is part of what Josh said on that phone call, when you challenge somebody to, "Hey, we'd love to work with you. And the next step is meeting with you and your spouse on the phone, and we're not going to move forward if we don't..." It's when you tell people things that might make them a little uncomfortable, but they need to hear. And so far, I think you've done that twice on this interview. So, thanks for sharing that story, and it's been really fun interviewing you both.
Duane Draughon:
Thank you.
Jack Jostes:
Do you have any other final comments or thoughts for the audience?
Josh:
I think, in general, business owners out there, you have to realize that your business is no more than a direct reflection of the inner game. Right? What's going on in here is going on out there. So when you can change what's going on in here, you can change everything in front of you. So, in order to do that, you need to be exposed to things you were never exposed to. In order to have a different result, you need a different environment. So what that means is you need to start reading books and going to seminars and whatever, paying for classes, doing whatever; podcasts, just like a podcast like this.
Josh:
Listen. Because each day, if you grow a small amount, we'd like to call it two millimeters, right? You grow two millimeters in all different levels of your life, you can then find that or create that destiny that you're looking for. Right? If you can visualize it, you can get to it as long as you can get the mind game right. And that's the craziest part. 99% of what stops people is right here, and 99% of what drives people is right here and right here. It's that simple.
Josh:
... right here and right here. It's that simple. And once you figure out it's not the fact you didn't get the best job or this guy said no to you or that one quit, it's all in your own mind, and you have the power as a human being to change the meaning of anything that's happened to you in your life, you have the power to do that, because life is happening for you, not to you, the entire game changes. It did for me. And I'm not going to speak for Duane. He can speak for himself.
What Is It That You Want In Life And Not The Business?
Duane Draughon:
You know, Joshua, I'm going to, very simply, it’s almost like we speak the same language in the whole thing. One of my biggest things is nobody dies on a deadline. And one of the problems that I think a lot of contractors have is they're always behind schedule or always behind on money and always behind on things.
Duane Draughon:
And you don't have to go kill yourself and destroy your body in order to pay that last bill or get that thing. You really got to sit down and pay attention to what is it that you want in life and not the business? I think Jack asked the question in the beginning. He was like, "How did you make it?" And Jack, it really wasn't the business that I was really stuck on in the beginning, it was really the lifestyle. And so I made it by focusing on lifestyle. Actually, I didn't even realize that until you asked that question, Jack. So I had an aha moment earlier, so you got me first. You know what I mean? Having me really thinking about it. I was on the lifestyle, on how I wanted to live and really not on the business in the beginning.
Duane Draughon:
And so that's a message I want to send to contractors if you're watching this or anybody else in industry: educate, educate, educate. The only reason why I'm sitting here talking to you guys, and Josh is here, is because we've read books, we've studied, we've learned, we've immersed ourselves in programs. Find a coach, find something that gets a motivation. 80% of all your success is based on your mindset and what you're thinking and how you're thinking. If you think you're going to be bad and have bad outcomes or bad days, it's going to happen to you. If you believe you can make it and you're going to be somewhere greater and you're going to be in a better situation, it's going to happen to you. So educate, educate, and massive action every single day. Do not let up, do not give up and always stay relentless.
Jack Jostes:
I love that. That's what I love about this show is I get to interview great people like you. Never really know what we're going to talk about exactly, but you guys have shared some really inspiring stories and really healthy mindset tips. For sure, reading and listening, I'm constantly either listening to podcasts or putting YouTube on and just listening to something and trying to listen to good, inspiring information.
Jack Jostes:
So thank you both for coming on the show today. And for those of you watching or listening, you've got to watch this episode because I'm going to cut in the video of them dancing that brought us together because it's so good.
Josh:
We can shoot you another one too. That's not a problem.
Jack Jostes:
Oh yeah.
Josh:
We dance every day.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Don't die during this next one, right? I'm glad that you're you're well, Duane, and that you're here on this show. So thank you. You guys check out yes.express and check out Josh and Duane’s new podcast, Outerspaces. It’s available everywhere you listen to podcasts. And thanks for tuning in to the Landscaper's Guide to Modern Sales and Marketing. It's been a real pleasure today.
